[Lispweb] Mod_lisp 2.0 released

Andrew K. Wolven awolven at redfernlane.org
Sun Jun 17 23:04:16 CDT 2001


So the point that you are trying to make is that your employer had you dinking around
with inferior java technology in order to support a mostly inferior web server in order
to support an inferior operating system in order to support yet another mostly inferior
programmer who calls button-pushing a 'science'.  (All of this having nothing to do with
lisp or web except to justify a system which could have just used fastcgi or jserve in
the first place if you must sell buzztalk.)

Consider this common abbreviation of one of my employers: AIMD,  Aviation Intermediate
Maintenance Depot.  The only Tomcat technology AIMD bothers to support is F-14 Tomcat.
In this environment, you may find yourself facing both a court martial and the wrath of
a widow if money makes you complacent and you cannot do your homework.

Of course, that example is way extreme, let us consider a less mission critical
application environment:  an Online store.  Do you want to rewrite the entire system
from scratch to make the jump from 100 customers a month to 100,000?  It's up to you, it
is your time, your money and your carpal tunnel syndrome.

AKW

mdanish at andrew.cmu.edu wrote:

> IIRC stands for If I Recall Correctly, and IIRC, it is a very common internet
> abbreviation.
>
> Jakarta-Tomcat is the reference implementation of "Java Servlets".  I
> suggest you read about it at http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/index.html
> and then decide its relevance to the discussion at hand.
> I had to install it at work one time, but I learned a bit about
> Apache->"Separate Server Process" interfacing in the process.
> You might be interested to know that IMHO (A Common LISP web objects
> framework) used the mod_jserv from Tomcat, at one point in the past.
>
> On Sun, Jun 17, 2001 at 09:07:05PM -0500, Andrew K. Wolven wrote:
> >
> >
> > mdanish at andrew.cmu.edu wrote:
> >
> > > IIRC, the reason that Jakarta-Tomcat does not serve it's own pages
> > > via it's own HTTP server (and it does have one), is because
> > > 1. The Tomcat HTTP server is slow and an incomplete implementation
> > > 2. It is not as secure as Apache, and not as well maintained
> > > 3. It means defining security in two different places:
> > >    - The apache configuration files
> > >    - The Tomcat configuration files
> > >    And Apache is a lot more configurable than the Tomcat HTTP server.
> > >
> > > It seems to me that a lot of the same issues would apply to mod_lisp
> > > and whatever backend.
> > >
> >
> > Please tell me what IIRC is a clever acronym/abbrev for, and also, if you could,
> > please tell me what that Jakarta-Tomcat http server is about.  I might be able to
> > understand what point you are getting at.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Andrew
> >
> >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Jun 17, 2001 at 07:51:31PM -0500, Andrew K. Wolven wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Marc Battyani wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I just released mod_lisp 2.0 here :
> > > > > http://www.fractalconcept.com/asp/mod_lisp
> > > > > mod_lisp is an Apache module to easily write web applications in Lisp.
> > > > >
> > > > > It has been completely re-written and now it reuses the Apache <-> Lisp
> > > > > sockets, boosting performance by a factor of up to 80.
> > > > >
> > > > > mod_lisp talk from Apache to lisp processes by sockets with a very
> > > > > straightforward protocol to handle a request. It now reuses the Apache to
> > > > > Lisp sockets for improved performance. Future versions will probably be more
> > > > > Lisp specific, but for now it can be used by any other language.
> > > > >
> > > > > Why mod_lisp?
> > > > >
> > > > > -The Lisp servers are application servers. I don't want to bother the Lisp
> > > > > applications with things like serving gif or jpeg files or even static pages
> > > > > in some cases. Using mod_lisp I can separate the HTTP servers from the
> > > > > application servers.
> > > > > The architecture I am promoting is like this: One or more Apache front ends
> > > > > to serve static content (like images), one or more Lisp application servers
> > > > > to process the application logic and databases servers to store the data.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Time is the scarcest resource so I don't want to waste it to implement
> > > > > things like SSL (though an SSL implementation in Lisp is useful for other
> > > > > purposes), keeping up to date with HTTP protocols etc. The Apache people do
> > > > > this with a sufficient quality, I don't see any interest to do it myself.
> > > > >
> > > > > -I can benefit from the Apache modules if I need them (mod_gzip for
> > > > > instance)
> > > > >
> > > > > -The market acceptance is quite better. It's really easier to sell an Apache
> > > > > + FreeBSD + (Postgresql or Oracle) + Lisp solution than a Lisp + FreeBSD +
> > > > > (Postgresql or Oracle) solution. In the first case Lisp is perceived as yet
> > > > > another web language like Perl, Python and others. In the second case you
> > > > > have to advocate the use of Lisp.
> > > > >
> > > > > -mod_lisp is released under a FreeBSD style license.
> > > > >
> > > > > -It's easier to work on a project where the Lisp web application is only a
> > > > > part of a web site.
> > > > >
> > > > > It's in a beta stage. So please report the bugs you can find to me so that I
> > > > > can include them. (you can also report to me the English mistakes I have
> > > > > made in the mod_lisp pages...)
> > > > >
> > > > > Marc
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Lispweb mailing list
> > > > > Lispweb at red-bean.com
> > > > > http://www.red-bean.com/mailman/listinfo/lispweb
> > > >
> > > > Dear Marc,
> > > > I really appreciate your work on mod_lisp in that it helps give unix
> > > > jockeys one
> > > > less excuse for not using the highest quality standards in software
> > > > engineering,
> > > > namely ANSI Common Lisp and relatives.  However, I think that the design
> > > > reasons
> > > > that you have described above are full of hot air and that's why you
> > > > have to add
> > > > steel cables to keep your balloon from floating off.  You are adding an
> > > > extra
> > > > layer of sockets and the protocol to go with it which only forces a lisp
> > > > hacker
> > > > to have to waste time learning/administrating Apache/mod_lisp in
> > > > addition to
> > > > programming/administrating a lisp [application] server.  (and will
> > > > probably make
> > > > the response time of your http request go up by 20% or so on average)  I
> > > > happen
> > > > to believe strongly, as well as have evidence based on government work
> > > > experience, that people that stack engineering on top of buzzwords are
> > > > doomed.
> > > > If you must offload your static data to an Apache server for
> > > > performance/admin/political or other reasons, you don't need a backdoor
> > > > connection to the server since the browser can connect to the static
> > > > content
> > > > server directly.  Simply have your lisp [application] server emit the
> > > > correct
> > > > url to the static content.  I seem to remember this debate from a while
> > > > back and
> > > > it seemed fresh and dandy then, but now that I have had time to mull
> > > > over it and
> > > > run some live sites, I have to say 'wait a minute'.
> > > >
> > > > AKW
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Lispweb mailing list
> > > > Lispweb at red-bean.com
> > > > http://www.red-bean.com/mailman/listinfo/lispweb
> > >
> > > --
> > > ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
> > > ;; Matthew Danish                         email: mdanish at andrew.cmu.edu ;;
> > > ;; OpenPGP public key available from:        'finger mrd at db.debian.org' ;;
> > > ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Lispweb mailing list
> > Lispweb at red-bean.com
> > http://www.red-bean.com/mailman/listinfo/lispweb
>
> --
> ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
> ;; Matthew Danish                         email: mdanish at andrew.cmu.edu ;;
> ;; OpenPGP public key available from:        'finger mrd at db.debian.org' ;;
> ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;




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