Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:17:45 -0500 From: David Fotland Subject: Re: SGF - some answers > David Fotland votes for: > > > - Pass move as '[tt]' for boards <= 19x19 > > I know it looks ugly, but it is important to me that MF interoperate > > smoothly with what is currently out there. And I would prefer to > > make the change to FF[4] invisible to the user, so he doesn't have to > > remember which format he saved in , or ask his pro which version he support s. > > If your that concerned about compatibility then you can't use FF[4] at all. > You can't even use FF[3] (e.g. mgt doesn't support it). OK, you've convinced me I can't write FF[4]. Too bad, as I was hoping I could use a format with a written spec. I'm not looking forward to all the support calls from people complaining that MF can't read their favorite SGF file, or that their favorite application can't read a file generated by MF. I am very concerned about compatibility. Otherwise there is no reason for me to support SGF at all, since Ishi format works just fine, and is 100% compatible among all applications that support it. Since I want to support SGF format for IGS game records, I thought that I would do a more complete support, and get Ishi-SGF conversion as well for free. But it's pretty silly to tell people that they can read a commented Ishi file, write it as SGF, then find that their favorite SGF viewer can't read the file that MF produces... Does anyone know of a spec for FF[3]? Is it defined by a particular implementation of SGB? If so, how can I get it so I can find the spec by trial and error? I hate software that doesn't work well as released, and depends on user feedback to get the bugs out. But it seems that there is little choice but to do that with SGF, since there are so many incompatible viewers out there. > > If you're already grouping 'special markup' etc. in a seperate menu, > then move ALL FF[4] functions there. If none of these functions is used > write a plain FF[3] file otherwise a FF[4] file WITH pass moves as '[]'! If I have to write FF[3] files anyway, then that is all I will write. I don't want to have to support two file types, or confuse my users by sometimes generating files that work with their other application, and sometimes don't. Markups that are common between SGF and Ishi format are on buttons on the toolbar. Others have to be picked from a menu. > > You can use a lot of restrictions (e.g. split move/setup properties) in > FF[3] too. And you may enforce correct game info entries in FF[3] too. > FF[4] is just more restricted to produce a 'cleaner' SGF file. > There's no reason why you shouldn't create a clean FF[3] file too. Yes, I'll just create a clean FF[3] file. > > > How about dropping arrows :-) Why would someone want to draw a line from > > one stone to another? I won't support any change that involves coordinates > > with finer resolution than a board point... > > Finer? Arrows are pointing from one board point to another. > I guess you've seen this in books: arrows indicating influence, > directions, ladders, etc. They ARE useful. > And if we draw arrows we may draw simple lines too. Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was responding to ca comment about drawing boxes I think. I know that arrows go from point to point. But I won't be supporting them since they aren't in FF[3]. I do applaud your effort to create a real SGF spec. It is greatly needed. But I will have to wait a few releases until other programs support it before I can write it. I will be able to read FF[4]. -David