Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 17:48:59 -0400
From: Jens Yllman <jens.yllman@mailbox.swipnet.se>
Subject: RE: writing both FF[4] and FF[3] formats

 Hello.

 I hope I've not upset you. My point is that when the computer knows the
format you it can presented in the way the user wants. I see that as a very
big advantaged in the user interface. And when you say that is you add
things to an old file that require you to save in FF[4] then you have human
help to convert data the computer does not understand. So my suggestion is,
as long as the computer is not sure how to convert all data in the FF[3]
file and nothing is added that needs FF[4], save it as FF[3]. And if the
computer is 100% sure of all the data in the file you can choose to save it
in FF[3] or FF[4]. And if you save it in FF[3] anyway you can save all data
in the formats specified in FF[4]. To make it easier to convert later. I
know you think this alot of work. And it may be so. I'll choose this path
when I'll come to this part in my programs. Because I see this as a big
step forward in the user interface. To be able to display data in formats
the user i used to. I think you showed an example before. 08/06/97, is this
6th of august 1997 or the 8th of june 1997. I have to think twice everytime
I see this format. And us living outside the US know more about the common
problems about diffrent ways to present dates and other data. I work with
these type of problems every day. Anyway I see why you don't like it. But
we have all seen the problems with everybody not implimenting SGF the same
way. So why not try to correct this by using FF[4] as we have designed it
now. I think that will make it easier for us in the future. It may be hard
right now. But hang in there. And maybe we, in our capacity as
professionals, can help the others by building databases with games in the
SGF FF[4] format.

 Thanks for listening. And I hope you don't take my thoughts as an insult.
I just want to show everybody my view of this.

 Jens Yllman

At 14.44 1997-04-26 -0500, you wrote:
>I don't want my users to have to be aware of which files are FF[3] and which
>are FF[4].
>
>If I keep old files in FF[3], then the user can't use any of the new FF[4]
>features such as square and arrow marks, variation styles, etc.
>
>I don't want to take the phone calls from angry users who say, "I read in
>an SGF file from IGS, and I can't add an arrow to it", or "I added an arrow
>to an IGS file, but it went away when I saved it."
>
>If a program supports the new FF[4] features, then it must save all files
>in FF[4] format.
>
>I expect many games that have commentary added will start from an IGS game,
>which are not FF[4].
>
>Sometimes we focus on the file format, and use that to drive our user
>interface.  I prefer to focus on the user interface first, and give the
>user something that is easy to use and understand, then see how I can
>use the file format to support that interface.  Having different features
>enabled or disabled for different files with the same extension is not
>friendly to the user.
>
>-David Fotland
>